Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Level/1

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Introduction

The purpose of this discussion page is to manage the Level 1 list of 10 topics for which Wikipedia should have high-quality articles (e.g. at WP:FA and WP:GA status). Since changes to this list affect lower-level lists, discussions regarding its composition are best initiated at Wikipedia talk:Vital articles.

All Level 1 nominations must be of an article already listed at level 2.

All proposals must remain open for !voting for a minimum of 15 days, after which:

1. After 15 days it may be closed as PASSED if there are (a) 5 or more supports, AND (b) at least two-thirds are in support.
2. After 30 days it may be closed as FAILED if there are (a) 3 or more opposes, AND (b) it failed to earn two-thirds support.
3. After 30 days it may be closed as NO CONSENSUS if the proposal hasn't received any !votes for +30 days, regardless of tally.
4. After 60 days it may be closed as NO CONSENSUS if the proposal has (a) less than 5 supports, AND (b) less than two-thirds support.

Nominations should be left open beyond the minimum if they have a reasonable chance of passing. An informed discussion with more editor participation produces an improved and more stable final list, so be patient with the process.

For reference, the following times apply for today:

• 15 days ago was: 17:13, 19 July 2024 (UTC) ()
• 30 days ago was: 17:13, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
• 60 days ago was: 17:13, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Half way...

5/10 articles of Vital 1 are either GA or FA. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 07:10, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Kudos to those involved. Cobblet (talk) 14:35, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Remove The arts, replace with Art

It is out of place. The arts is not equivalent to science, Art is. The equivalent of The arts is branches of science.

Compare the articles. The key aspect is that science and art are primarily discussing the field, while branches of science and The arts are listing types. List of sciences redirects to branches of science (in the outline article). List of arts redirects to The arts.

While the article for Art is weighted towards visual arts, this is a failure of the article giving WP:UNDUE weight, rather than something inherent to what the article should or could be. This is made clear by visual being a qualifier of art.

I chose to compare Art with Science because The arts is so clearly equivalent to branches of science. But comparing the article for Art with Philosophy, Mathematics or Technology, it is clear that The arts is the odd one out. It is not general, it is primarily a list of constituents. A lvl1 Vital Article should be general.

Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 01:53, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Support [nominator]
2. Support --Thi (talk) 12:37, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose this proposal makes zero sense. "The arts is not equivalent to science" no shit Sherlock. "The equivalent of The arts is branches of science." what does this even mean? "A lvl1 Vital Article should be general" and so you want to replace an extremely general article with an article on a subtopic?? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:05, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

   Philosophy, Mathematics, Science and Art are all a general outline of the subject, rather than primarily a list of subtopics. Art is not a subtopic of The arts. Every type of art mentioned in The arts is also mentioned in Art. The arts is just a list article for Art. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 23:30, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

   "Theatre, dance, and other performing arts, as well as literature, music, film and other media such as interactive media, are included in a broader definition of the arts" — the fourth sentence of Art. Next time, I would advise reading the articles before making sweeping conclusions about their scope. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:54, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

   You quote it here. The arts is a definition of art. The arts are forms that art takes. Seeing this, how could art be a subtopic of The arts?

   Your quote is also taken out of context. It's not comparing The arts with Art. It's comparing The arts with the three classical branches of visual art. If what you were saying was true, Art would not discuss forms such as performance art as it would be beyond its scope. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 01:45, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

   • "You quote it here. The arts is a definition of art." No.
   • "The arts are forms that art takes." No.
   • "If what you were saying was true, Art would not discuss forms such as performance art as it would be beyond its scope." Yes, and I think you'll find that's the case.

   I doubt you will read it, but anyone else might be interested in Wikipedia:Contents/Culture and the arts and Classificatory disputes about art. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:32, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

   Thanks for dropping the link to Wikipedia:Contents/Culture and the arts. This is the place to discuss before changing anything here, I'm moving to oppose.

   For other editors reading, I'll let the full quote AirshipJungleman29 drew from speak for itself:

   "There is no generally agreed definition of what constitutes art, and its interpretation has varied greatly throughout history and across cultures. In the Western tradition, the three classical branches of visual art are painting, sculpture, and architecture. Theatre, dance, and other performing arts, as well as literature, music, film and other media such as interactive media, are included in a broader definition of the arts."

   Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 12:08, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

2. Oppose --Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 12:08, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion